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Republic of Ireland
https://418747.wb34atkl.asia/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3833		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  nighthunter [ December 28th, 2012, 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Republic of Ireland
Okay, so enough of me teasing you all, here it is.

Timeline mirrors the real world, with some slight deviations, the English do not try to colonize Ireland, but do take control, there is no Protestant vs Catholic rivalries, short of the Irish disliking their English overlords, (like the Scottish).

More on that later, here is what everyone is expecting:

Oldest Aircraft: 1922

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Newest Aircraft: 2005

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Author:  Portsmouth Bill [ December 28th, 2012, 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Hornets :o Bejeebers that's an impressive aircraft! So, interested...no potatoe famine, no mass migration overseas, the only way to sustain such a defence budget...um? So no USA, UK, Australia, Canada, as we know today? :cry:
Author:  Glorfindel [ December 28th, 2012, 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
I don't know why you come all the time with this financial argument? If the irish really wanted finance such aircrafts, they could, see finland. The problems of financing the europian armed forces are either political nature or because this forces are professional forces.
Author:  heuhen [ December 28th, 2012, 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Glorfindel wrote:
I don't know why you come all the time with this financial argument? If the irish really wanted finance such aircrafts, they could, see finland. The problems of financing the europian armed forces are either political nature or because this forces are professional forces.
Or like in Norway, if we didn't think on money we could have a navy of the size of UK or Netherlands....
Author:  nighthunter [ December 28th, 2012, 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Ach, Billy, Me laddo, dinna ye know ther is gold, in them thar hills?

Where there is legend, there is a truth... ;-{)>

On a completely serious note, the Irish spend a bit on their defense, because they know that this world is a hazardous one, they've dealt with the English, Germans (twice), Korea and the Cold War, their economy is not in the tank because GB is not capitalizing on "cheap" Irish labour. They have fisheries and farming, as well as a small mining industries, as well as shipwrights, after all, Belfast built the Olympic Class Liners. Ireland wants to protect Ireland, and Irish at home and overseas. They Participate in the EU, but kept the Irish Pound Sterling for home use. They are members of the UN and NATO, although less active in NATO with the threat of the Soviet's dissipated. They still have a relatively small Defense Force, but use the most modern equipment they can buy, without breaking their budget. So, at the moment, they use Hornet's for Air Defense, 6 P-3C Orions for Coast Guard patrols (this includes ASW, ASmW, and Fisheries enforcement), 4 E-2C Hawkeyes for AWACS, and 8 PC-9's for early pilot's training as well as COIN should the need arise.
Author:  Hood [ December 29th, 2012, 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Bill is correct in looking at finances to make any good AU believable.
Finland and Ireland are not quite the same, Finland was forcibly neutralised in 1944 by the Soviets and they had a delicate line between defending from perhaps the West or the East. However, Switzerland is perhaps a good example of a nation surrounded by potential enemies and well defended, although today even the purchase of a 'cheap' fighter like the Gripen NG is still politically controversial. Ireland has never had to invest much air defence infrastructure because direct air threats were historically small. Any threat from the east had to bypass Britain's defences and the only recent threats were German bombers based in Germany 1940-44 and Soviet Bears and Backfires flying in from the north-west Atlantic around Britain.

You say Ireland was controlled by the British but not colonised and that history is generally the same. Do we assume Ireland achieved independence from Britain in 1922? If so how did this come about and not, for example Scotland (unless this AU Ireland never became part of the United Kingdom). Alas given the historical Catholic vs. Protestant rivalries on the mainland (Henry VIII, Mary, William of Orange etc.) your hopes of religious peace in Ireland are probably unlikely in historical terms but I agree the removal of the plantations should ease things a bit.

You also mention Harland & Wolff, yet that firm was not Irish at all but part of a wider British investment. Edward Harland was born in Scarborough, North Yorkshire and educated in Scotland. Gustav Schwabe, a friend of his uncle and partner in the Bibby Line managed to obtain him several engineering jobs and persuaded him to go to Belfast to manage a failing shipyard, Robert Hickson's shipyard in 1854, which he turned around and later brought with his partner Gustav Wolff. Schwabe had also arranged Wolff's position as Harland's personal assistant and had previously been working in Manchester. A later partner, William Pirrie was Irish, but born in Canada and was an apprentice at Harland & Wolff. Britain invested a lot in industry in Northern Ireland well into the 1970s as attempts to lower unemployment. So any AU needs a sound economic basis and you can't underestimate the effects of British investment. Had Harland not gone to Hickson's in 1854 the yard would probably have gone bust and Harland would have remained in the British shipyards of the Tyne or Clyde, as would Wolff and Pirie may never have entered the shipbuilding world. Strange things can happen in AU worlds...
Author:  Portsmouth Bill [ December 29th, 2012, 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
I would say that Hood has saved me the trouble of adding anything further :)

And Glorfindel, the "reason I come all this time with this financial argument" sic; though, I wasn't aware that I did, is that I give the topic the respect of taking it seriously, especially when coming from a senior member on the forum. As it happens this one just won't fly (or float ;) ), unless we suspend reality; but its a (relatively) free forum, and each to their own :|
Author:  nighthunter [ December 30th, 2012, 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
All very good arguments, and I have not yet figured a financial take on it, yes, there were migrations to the Americas and Canada, yes, there was a potato famine, but Ireland received foreign aid.
Author:  indiajuliet [ January 2nd, 2013, 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Love the Hornets, nighthunter. So in this case, was Ireland ever a part of the UK (ie. 1801-1922)? Did Ireland's active role in WW1 and neutral position in WW2 change?
I look forward to reading a bit more history if you get a chance to write some.
Author:  nighthunter [ January 5th, 2013, 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Republic of Ireland
Ireland was still part of the UK but the Entire Island became the Republic of Ireland in 1922. Ireland was just as active in WW1 as history states, and they were on the side of the Allies in WW2 after the Luftwaffe bombed Belfast, intentionally, due to Hitler trying to keep Ireland out of the war.
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