Shipbucket :: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility

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On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility https://418747.wb34atkl.asia/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6304	Page 1 of 2

Author:	OnionSpider13 [ October 14th, 2015, 5:31 am ]
Post subject:	On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
This question concerns modernizing a warship based on a what-if scenario. Some members on another forum suggested a scenario in which Tirpitz survived WWII and was kept by either the US or a NATO ally. The goal was to scale-model a NATO-1985 Tirpitz, refitted in the same manner as the Iowa class. My question is, to what extend could you change the radars and gun directors with the existing battery? Could the American Mk 38 GFCS be modified to work with the German 380mm guns on Tirpitz, or would it be more plausible to keep the original 10.5m director and FuMO-26? What about air- and surface-search radars (SPS-6/49/67)? In addition to adding Tomahawks and Harpoons, what other modifications would be necessary (secondary battery, sensors, etc)? I know how unlikely this scenario is, but this is more for my own understanding of equipment function and compatibility. Thanks!

Author:	JSB [ October 14th, 2015, 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
Unless this is a TL where Germany keeps a large navy ? - Would it not make more sense to remove the 105mm now not supported by spares/ammo and fit new guns ? (and therefore directors) as an added bonus you can go to having a DP battery and save weight. - The main guns are hand made effectively and also will run out of spares (ammo/barrel liners) (and you don't have a big pool like the 16" US) so not sure what to do with them Not sure that swapping directors makes any difference and just adds effort. - Probably it will need a full rebuild of all the radars and sensors (and maybe the full electrical grid not sure what it ran on ?) this is why not build a new ship territory (nobody in NATO but US/GB can afford it and tey have to many BBs anyway) - what about a full USSR rebuild ? say Stalin gets hold of it in the Baltic (after its run east from bombing) and it ends up getting rebuilt for the soviet fleet to 'match' the Iowa's ?

Author:	Krakatoa [ October 14th, 2015, 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
That last idea is a good one JSB, much more likely for USSR to keep a Tirpitz to match the Iowa's, and if UK gets going, match the Vanguard too.

Author:	CanuckBulldog [ October 14th, 2015, 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
Taken in hand, the Russians would have most likely left her as is (or maybe mount common guns to the Petropavlovsk/Tallinn) until the time it came to turn her into a guided missiles platform for first generation SAM/SSM and so on in the mid/late 50's. They could never match the US (And 1 UK) BBs gun for gun but would go technological instead.

Author:	JSB [ October 14th, 2015, 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
I was thinking more 'match' for prestige rather than combat reasons, but the origins of the ship might well hurt that use. I think a full rebuild of all electronics and light guns, maybe fit DP guns and lots of light AA due to supply issues.

Author:	OnionSpider13 [ October 14th, 2015, 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
I agree that a Soviet rebuild is much more plausible. If I were doing that, I would replace the electronics and secondaries, and add heavy AShM. I've already seen people do that before though, so that's why I'm more interested in mimicking an Iowa. I've seen plans to do so, but I can't find anyone who has actually done it. My initial idea was to replace the 150s and maybe two of the 105s with 5" along with Mk 37 directors. And the Iowa missile suite, too. Here's the link to a Soviet Tirpitz, it is pretty close to the top: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=25558.0

Author:	Krakatoa [ October 14th, 2015, 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
Some interesting what-ifs in that link. You would need to remove all of the 150/105/37/20mm, complete new secondary tertiary battery. Replace with (10x1?) 5"/54 and appropriate directors/radars. Half a dozen of the CIWS weapon systems. Missiles and controller systems at 1985 types. Fit where space available.

Author:	JSB [ October 14th, 2015, 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
The problem is why they would bother when they have Illinois and Kentucky (not to mention 4+6 already built) A cheap rebuild will not be supportable and in the shot term they have to threats, A expensive useful rebuild cost more than a finished I or K...... (and is still less useful/supportable) And thanks for the link, I would like to see a USSR rebuild in shipbucket scale

Author:	Krakatoa [ October 14th, 2015, 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
Like a lot of 'what-ifs' it is not why would they bother, it is more for the pleasure of making it happen. With Tirpitski, you have the skills to make that happen JSB.

Author:	CanuckBulldog [ October 15th, 2015, 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: On Radar/Director and Main Battery Compatibility
In the post war disarmament, and as pointed out, the abundance of 'Nearly' completed or surplus hulls in US/UK inventory, she would have been most likely passed on to one of the 'Allies' than find home in the major fleets. Maybe Australia/Canada or Russia. Russia is still my bet and as AShMs/SAMs and ASWROCs of the time period were quite bulky, she would have promised an attractive stable platform for cheap to mount new prototype guided missiles on and associated F/C. Additionally or alternatively, she could be used as a target to test out these aforementioned missiles. Russia could not meet the US/UK, gun for gun, so testing the effectiveness of newly developed weapons on a 'Close Relative' of the Iowas or Vanguard could prove to be invaluable.

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