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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: January 29th, 2015, 4:52 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
Nice design, history good as usual, based on real. However, if Salamis was retained as a museum ship, her position would be in Faliro, not Piraeus.
If I attained this ship, history would be different somehow, because Hellenic Kingdom entered WW1 in January 1915 in Entente side, without having the internal problems of real Hellas. Also, there was no Minor Asia Campaigh in my scenario.

What would change to BB Salamis history concering the above?


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 7:46 am
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Hello again!

The next one became rather bigger than I had planned...

United States class battlecruisers

After their first battlecruiser class - USS Enterprise and Independence - was obsolete as soon as they were commissioned, the USN wanted to be ahead of the arms race with their next battlecruiser. As early as 1909, eight 356mm guns, 305mm vertical armour and 28 knots of speed were specified; Congress however recoiled when they were told that this performance was only feasible on a 32.000 ton hull. The politicians rather tended towards not buying any more battlecruisers at all, and the project was rejected in 1909 and again in 1910. But in 1911, the Thiarians initiated another round in the South American arms race by ordering their four Conaire-class fast dreadnoughts; with a speed of 24 knots and enough protection to withstand 343mm shells, these ships provoked Brazilian and Chilean counter-orders nearly immediately. Fearing their naval supremacy around the Americas eroding - and their newly acquired far eastern possessions being threatened by the newly ordered Japanese Kongo-class battlecruisers - Congress finally made its own belated contribution to the 1909 fleet panic and authorized four battlecruisers in 1911, two to be laid down in 1912 and two in 1913. To keep cost of the programme - the largest US capital ship class between the Conneticuts of 1903 and the Iowas of 1940 - under some semblance of control, a size limit of 28.000 tons was set; these ships were still considered a ludicrously expensive answer to a rather nebulous threat (neither Thiaria nor Japan were at that time considered potential enemies). The final design of April 1912 resembled a stretched Nevada with two funnels and a characteristically large open space above the turbine rooms between the mainmast and the aft superfiring turret. Speed and armament of the original 1909 specification were provided for, but armour was considerably weaker; although the ships adhered to the new all-or-nothing armour layout, they had only 254mm over the vitals. With two decks of 114mm thickness added up, horizontal protection seemed state of the art, but with hindsight, a single thick armoured deck would have been better than two thin ones. Numbered CB-3 through CB-6, the four ships, like their predecessors, received the names of famous historic warships. They were regarded as fast, economical and comfortable ships, but had a reputation of being unlucky; three of four were destroyed by enemy action, one in World War I and two in World War II, and all three losses were due to surface gunfire, making them three out of four US capital ships which were ever sunk by enemy heavy guns.


USS United States CB-3
Commissioned late in 1916, USS United States had the shortest career of her class. She was deployed to the South Atlantic in 1918 as part of an Anglo-American fleet tasked with destroying the Thiarian fleet. When Admiral Sturdee finally tried to trap the Thiarians in the battle of Craigmiadh, nearly everything went wrong. USS United States had the deck armour above her forward magazines penetrated by a single 600kg-shell from a 343mm gun of the Thiarian battlecruiser LT Aigean and blew up during the final phase of the battle; she was the only US capital ship of both world wars to perish in such a manner. Only 109 of her 1.170 crew survived. Unlike the British ships sharing her fate, whose magazines were not actually penetrated, but ignited by backflashes from the turrets, USS United States was killed by a plunging shell fired from extreme range (at over 17.000 meters, the fatal hit was among the longest-ranged heavy gun hits scored during the first world war) that smashed near vertically through her upper 38mm armoured deck and detonated just as it had penetrated the lower 76mm armoured deck. The picture shows her as commissioned, with the very austere bridgework characteristic of US ships of that era and still without flak.
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USS America CB-4
Entering service in February 1917, USS America accompanied her older sister to the South Atlantic. She engaged in a furious long-range gunnery duel with LT Aigean after the latter had blown up USS United States, but neither ship could duplicate another such disastrous lucky shot, and USS America suffered no casualties. The picture shows her in the weird-looking camouflage she wore during the battle of Craigmiadh in 1918; she had already received AA guns, rangefinders and some more bridgework.
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She was modernized in 1930 along similar lines as the Arizona-class, receiving heavy tripod masts, a new forecastle deck level casemate for her (numerically reduced) secondary artillery, completely new, massive bridgework, two catapults (arranged on upper deck level between mainmasts and aft turrets) and eight 127mm flaks.
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By 1941, four 28mm quad mounts were added to supplement the weak light AA battery of no more than eight 12,7mm MGs. USS America missed Pearl Harbour because she was underway with Halsey's carriers, and was the only capital ship of the Pacific fleet to be immediately available for action against the Japanese.
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After being present both in the Coral Sea and at Midway without making contact, she was refitted with two additional 28mm quads, air search and main fire control radar, shields for her 127mm flaks, and 16 20mm Oerlikons. In this guise, she took part in the Guadalcanal campaign where she was instrumental in sinking the Japanese battlecruiser Kirishima on November 15th, 1942, just before coming into the sights of the Japanese battleship Mutsu, which blew her apart with 14 410mm hits at close range.
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USS Congress CB-5
The sole survivor of her class, she was built to slightly different plans than the first two ships, with her secondary battery reduced from 22 to 20 127mm guns and ten of them placed in a much drier forecastle deck level casemate, which would be retrofitted to USS America later. USS Congress also was the first US capital ship with a clipper bow which was later to become characteristic for US battleships. She was completed with heavy flak and rangefinders and was considered a better sea boat than her half-sisters. USS Congress was commissioned late in 1917 and was attached to the Grand fleet in 1918 for a few months; she saw no action during that time. The picture shows her in her Royal Navy style camouflage she wore during her attachment to the Grand fleet.
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She was modernized from 1931 through 1934 along the lines of USS New Mexico and her sisters, looking for all the world like a stretched version of New Mexico with the same catapult arrangement as on USS America; her two funnels were trunked together in a deliberate attempt to make her look like New Mexico and her sisters as much as possible. By 1941, she had received four 28mm quads and 16 12.7mm MGs and belonged to the Atlantic fleet, performing convoy escort duty even before the USA joined the war. The picture shows her as she looked in the autumn of 1941.
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During the second world war, USS Congress and her sister were the only US capital ships which never served in the pacific. They had a very active career in the Atlantic, including several surface gunnery actions. USS Congress took part in Operation Torch, shelling the French battleship Jean Bart, then advanced into the Mediterranean and provided shore bombardment during the invasion of Sicily. Both ships then proceeded to the South Atlantic and supported the US-Brazilian offensive in Southern Brazil; during a naval battle off the River Plate estuary in January 1944, she remained undamaged and scored several hits on the Thiarian battlecruiser LT Conlan, which was also hit rather badly by the Bazilian battleship Aquidaban and eventually sank. She later participated in the liberation of Uruguay and was present at the Thiarian surrender in November 1944. After the war, she became a nuke target and capsized after test 'Baker' in 1946. The picture shows her on VE day, without 127/51 guns, but with a total of 14 shielded 127/25s, ten 40mm quads, 24 Oerlikons and a modern radar suite.
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USS President CB-6
The final unit of her class commissioned at nearly the same time as her sister USS Congress and also went to Great Britain in 1918. The picture shows USS President immediately afterr the war; she is identical to Congress except for the camo.
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She also received the same modernization as her sister; the picture shows her after completion of the modernization in 1936.
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Like her sister, USS President was in the Atlantic in 1941. Both ships operated as a team, but USS President was torpedoed by the Italian submarine Argento in March 1943 during operations in the western Mediterranean and had to be repaired till August 1943. She then rejoined her sister, which - together with USS Iowa, the Brazilian battleship Aquidaban and three carriers - made a diversionary sweep towards the River Plate estuary while an invasion fleet was heading for New Portugal. The Thiarians fell for the ruse and met the Allies with their entire fleet; the battlecruiser LT Caithreim hammered USS President with 21 340mm hits, sinking her. The picture shows USS President as she looked as re-commissioned in August 1943 after repairing the Italian torpedo hit. Unlike her sister USS Congress, whose modernizations always were somewhat improvised President had been thoroughly re-equipped with eight 127/38 twin turrets, a totally new fire control suite, the latest radars, 15 40mm quads and 32 Oerlikons.
[ img ]

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on April 24th, 2015, 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 8:09 am
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Very good looking ships GD. The backstories fit with the employment such ships would have had in WW1 and WW2. I did wonder if one of the actions may have been in Norwegian waters against either Tirpitz or Scharnhorst. Another BC going boom under the guns of a German ship.


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wb21
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 8:28 am
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[ img ]

The lore and the icicle-camo measure on the America is beautifully executed. :)

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 8:54 am
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these are exelent, this whole concept is getting better and better after each ship entry.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 9:47 am
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Wonderful ships and histories, as usual. Well done GD! :) :)


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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 10:17 am
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What beautiful looking battlecruisers these are, especially the rebuilds.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 10:30 am
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A superb series. I can only echo the comments here on the quality of these AU ships, the backstories and the camouflage.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 12:08 pm
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Looks stunning! :)


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 1st, 2015, 12:27 pm
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Amazing battlecruisers, GD!

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