Shipbucket

Well, I guess a Korean War outfit would see her having the MkVI directors next to the bridge. Plus the removal of those sixteen single 40 mm Boffins. Really, those Boffins are more there as a feel-good move and to replace single and double 20 mm cannons. They're not actually tied into the fire control systems.

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Would you please not eat my gun...

Hunter Killer Groups.

When the Deutschland appeared in 1933, the biggest problem was not really how to sink it but how to find it, then sink it. In 1933, the mark one eyeball was still the main detection facility. The eyes may have been added to by binoculars and a directors optics but that still did not enlarge the horizon that could be seen around a ship. The introduction of catapult launched aircraft enlarged the possible search area but these aircraft could only be used in reasonable sea conditions, otherwise you could write-off a valuable aircraft and an even more valuable pilot. The RN pondered this problem and kept coming back to the same solution, the aircraft carrier. But that was another problem, the RN did not have enough of them. The RN could not afford the tonnage (CV's were tonnage limited) to build more of the large carriers they wanted to build. There was enough tonnage left in 1934 to lay down two 14-15,000 ton light carriers. The ships were based on a cruiser type hull of 600x70 feet. The ships were remarkably like the Hermes with updated equipment that 10 years of advances bring. They were fitted with a standard 72,000shp propulsion installation which produced an adequate 29 knots. The hangar could take 20-22 aircraft depending on size and type. Aircraft complement on out break of war was, 8 Gloster Griffon fighters, 4 Skua divebomber reconnaissance, and 10 Fairey Swordfish.



Eventually six of these extremely handy vessels were laid down. The first two Albatross and Osprey were laid down in late 1934 and were completed in late 1937 and early 1938. These two were followed by two more laid down in 1936 on the failure of the treaties, and with another two in 1937. They were then replaced in production by the Unicorn class which led to the Centaur class.

This gave a large search area facility from the aircraft on the carriers. The aircraft could be used to damage and slow the German ship, direct ships to the target, act as spotters for the big guns. Watch the ship sink beneath the waves.

These ships were the centrepiece for the hunter killer groups formed to hunt for the German Armoured Ships that were at sea at the out break of war. The Albatross, Osprey and Hermes were paired with the Warrior, Minotaur and Tiger (my Tiger) battlecruisers, each with a light cruiser and two destroyers. The French supplied the Bearn, Lorraine two light cruisers and two destroyers. These four groups looked after the Central Atlantic (France) and South Atlantic search areas.

Cute little carrier.

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Would you please not eat my gun...

The poor old Deutschland does not stand a chance against the forces being arrayed against it. If there are any of the German, Japanese and Italian raiders left by the time the US enters the war, the rebuilt Hawaii will certainly want to make their acquaintance.

I like it! very nice.

Oh, NICE! That Hawaii's BEAUTIFUL!

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

great ship, good work

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best regards
Martin

~~Normerr~~FD stuff~~

Okay, my thought on a USN "Deutschland Killer":

Take a Wichita-class vessel, substitute 3x 12-inch/50 caliber Mark 7 Mod 4 twin turrets for the 8-inch/55 caliber Mark 12 guns, remove 2x 5-inch/38 caliber Mark 12 guns fore and aft, and you get this, the Olympia-class "Heavy Cruiser". Also, Radar was added to all 5 vessels of the class. An asset that would help them track down the raiders.

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"It is better to type nothing and be assumed an ass, than to type something and remove all doubt." - Me

The drawing is ok Nighthunter, but I am not sold on it being a Deutschland killer, I would rate its chances as only 50/50 in a one on one battle.

The Wichita is credited with a 6.4" strake of belt armour, but as you can see from your drawing, that armour only covers the boilers and engine rooms and is very narrow. Reading the service record in Wiki, the Wichita was hit with a 4-5" shell 5 foot below the waterline which pierced the side and damaged a fuel tank. Taking that further it would mean that the magazines are not heavily protected and are a vulnerable point. The Deutschlands 11" guns would be capable of penetrating about 95% of the available target. Your 12" would have the same penetration ability on the Deutschland. However the range of the 11" on the Deutschland was 40,000 yards. The original twin 12" on yours only fired 24,000 yards, and even with increasing the elevation a bit you might make 30,000 yards. That's 10,000 yards you could be under fire for, before your guns could open fire. You had better hope for some bad weather and 25,000 yard ranges. Also the extra weight of the 12" gun installation would slow your ship down. The Wichita is credited with 100,000 for 33 knots, that would probably reduce to 30-31 knots. Add some extra armour and that speed would drop to the point where your ship is not much faster than the Deutschland, and thus the amount of time you could be under fire without reply could see your ship sunk without firing a shot.

For a Wichita type hull and 12", I would increase the length of the hull (and breadth), fit 8x12" (new mark of gun and turret for better range) to give a firepower superiority, enlarge the armour scheme by a lot, increase the propulsion systems to take the extra weight, use the extra length to improve your secondaries to 4 a side minimum. Lots more of that 6.4" armour belt.

None of the guns on any of the ships in this thread (except possibly the French 16") can match the Deutschland for range. So they need to have a marked speed advantage, better armour, and better firepower to be able to sink a Deutschland and not take too much damage themselves.

All fair points

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"It is better to type nothing and be assumed an ass, than to type something and remove all doubt." - Me