Shipbucket

Actually my spreadsheet missed those. I apologize, the B-17s are quite impressive. (This is what I get for doing data entry in MSPaint.)

I actually have twelve drawings in the archive - I got rid of a previous account after being harrassed by a former moderator.
I'm only here to vote for Kattsun's challenge entries and see the latest by RoPo.

Well, it seems (as visible above) it's not DtN's definition.
Of course, that redrawing for the sake of redrawing would be missing the point. But it was my point that there are drawings that have the room for upgrade and it would be good if someone competent would effect that upgrade.
Apologies for jumping to the conclusions, then.
Would You care to inform me about the username under which You have these works? (can be on PM if You prefer not to discuss it in public)

Things are different for SB now than 2009. The style as well as the artistic integrity has taken massive leap towards realism and accuracy, which has in other part produced tons of marvelous drawings, and yet turned the whole progress into a sort of semi-professional hobby, where your average 17 year old just cannot jump abroad that easily, as you need to actually know what to draw and how to draw, and most importantly, how to do research that sometimes seems to require full scientific rigour.
Also all that has lead the process to take unbelievable long compared to what it used to be "back in the day" when everyone was zealously filling the archives. I started my first real life thing of 2021 on January, and it took almost a week to gather enough references, two weeks to complete mere sideview, and that was on when I was in vacation. Now to find even time to start the plan view seems like the most stressful part of the whole progress. I figure I can produce 2-4 real life drawing this year , when back in 2009 that might have easily been 100.

We cant really get back to the past, unless we over do the whole style and return to the teachings of MConrads. Or somehow get surge of members who would focus all their enthusiasm toward the archiving and communal mentality and could somehow miraculously squeeze the necessary time from their lives to do so.

Challenges has nothing to do with the issue what so ever. If we wouldn't hold the challenges, those people who participate would then just draw their fantasy work for other reasons. Also, without challenges, people would hold them separately on their own venues, and that would lead into SB fragmentation, which we don't want.

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Briefly and clearly. I fully subscribe to this statement. Everyone should do what he prefers. It is impossible to influence this, you can only offer more attention to real designs. And the site has only two choices: to accept the alternative design or not.

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"I have thousand advisers who know how build a pyramid, but have not one who can tell me whether to build it or not." - John Kennedy.

People draw what they find intersting. I have very limited intrest in real ships. Draw some civilian ships.

This is a thorny issue and I can see both sides of the argument.

There are few of us pioneers from 2009 left drawing, even fewer who would even remember the ancient days of the original Photobucket album and exchanging drawings via emails (I think my earliest works were at least in 2006).

We have come a long long way. Many of us 'oldies' have gotten older and we no longer have the time to devote to this hobby as we once had. As Golly and Ian have said, drawings now are deeply researched and take time to draw. I've been working on a never-were ship now for two months (its 90% done) and my FD scale Canberra blanks are probably 18 months in the making already!

The younger members are here for fun and they have time pressures too. If it takes an experienced member weeks to complete a drawing, then to get the same results and inexperienced person will take longer.

I do think that the original ethos and aim of Shipbucket has got lost over the years, partially due to its success, a lot of people are kitbashing SB parts and drawings all over the web that have no connection with this site. There is also a large Discord SB community which runs behind the forum and which probably is driving a lot of the newer recruitment of younger artists and where a lot of the action is happening. The ballooning of the non-SB section in scales and techniques is proof that SB from its fame is attracting a lot of people who want to do digital art but who aren't really diehard naval nerds like us oldies were and who really find some of the SB rules a constraint on how they want to draw. Like an iceberg, what we see on the forum is probably the tip of the iceberg.

I would love to see more real-world drawings. Redrawing is possible and should be welcomed when an artist can bring something fresh and more refined to the table - we only progress as we practice. It's not true that everything has been drawn and it's worrying that some members feel its unoriginal or pointless to draw real stuff.

On the other hand, as SB style has advanced there has been a huge decline in kitbashing, most people here are now making their own AU designs and I think that should be applauded.

Challenges and AU work do allow you to practice drawing techniques - but I've yet to see much feedback from challenges. I used to do lengthy assessments to back up my votes but few others bother and I got no responses from my comments so I don't tend to bother now.

Challenges do bring their own problems; for those who follow them and enter each one they are a constant drain on time, you can't really compete well in them and draw real-life works at the same time. Which is why I now limit my participation in them. Also, when added to the Discord cliques we get problems like vote rigging which has happened a couple of times. Drawing is meant to be fun, and everyone should enjoy whatever they are drawing but this shouldn't be some kind of contest. It really doesn't matter who wins.

I would be interested though to see analysis of how many compete in challenges and how many actually vote afterwards. I've noticed a few times there are often as many voters as entries. Which suggests a large proportion of members (even non-drawing lurkers) are not actually engaging in the voting either.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

Yes indeed this is good sign overal. But I think the overlaying concern with Eswube and others is how to get these new talented people work with real life stuff. Its hard question, with no easy answers, since we can only attract people for it, not force

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Everyone's points are well-taken. Certainly we will never achieve the productivity of the late 2000s--our standards are simply much higher. At the same time, I sometimes worry if those standards are so high for real and never-were drawings that a less experienced artist might never start.

Now to get back to that Albany CG I've been working on for the better part of a decade...

For example, I quickly published only those things that were already ready in advance. But now I'm drawing a piece that will not be ready soon, despite the fact that it is AU.
So the moderators must return it. For this, the sections Real and AU are correctly divided, and also strict rules are existed. I would even suggest, perhaps, to divide the whole site - strict Real separately according to scales and separately AU of any scale and any format. And refer challenges to AU.
I apologize. I certainly didn't want to belittle someone fascination with real ships. I only meant that it is wrong to call AU a smaller task.
In my opinion, a fun does not interfere with the desire to win.
You are doing the right thing. This is your choice. Me too, although I draw AU and sometimes even by the challenge task, but I am not going to participate in them. This is job for younger, they need a glory. If they chose this, it means they prefer the challenge over real ships. And this is their choice.
Don't you think this is natural? Those who paint it, they evaluate it. These are the same people.

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"I have thousand advisers who know how build a pyramid, but have not one who can tell me whether to build it or not." - John Kennedy.

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Work list: 1. various pre-1900 Zipang ships 2. Some protected cruisers and other miscellaneous projects