Shipbucket

10-20 meters? no. 2+? Very much yes! The exception is vents for exhaust cooling of course, but I was under the impression that this was the air intakes for the gas turbines as there are no other intakes anywhere else?

Keep in mind that all air that comes out of a turbine has to be sucked in. If there is too much resistance on that, the turbine will stall. So intake channels always have more volume then the actual intake of the turbine. Take the air intakes on the spruances for example:

For that reason, you also want intakes as short as possible, because the longer they get, the more cross section area they need to avoid too much resistance..... which is why the air intakes in almost all cases go straight up from the turbine room. In addition, gas turbines are maintained off-site so you need to be able to lift the turbine itself (not the entire module but the turbine) out of the ship in some way. As the air intakes normally go straight up from the turbine room, and they have at least the cross section area of the size of the turbine, they are often used for this. So on most ships with gas turbines you can see an air intake housing with vents all around and a hatch to lift the turbine out on top.
Don't they go into the same space as the funnels and vents on the sides? and I think they still suck in hot air from the exhaust, not something that easily cools the funnel?
See the above explanation on intakes. I really wouldn't centralise your intakes and exhausts. I could see some use for centralising the uptakes to avoid interference with the radars, but intakes I really would keep as short as possible
I suspect this ship is a bit longer then the ship drawing that 'donated' the stern shape and shaft angles. As the propeller shaft is a straight line to the gearboxes (or electric motors) at their end, and your engines looked to be quite far forwards, that defines the height of the gearboxes on this ship. Look again for the image of the Spruances' arrangement above for an example

But yes, with electric motors the shafts stop further aft and then it works, but with gearboxes I would expect the shaft angle to be a bit closer to horizontal.

This explanation of flight deck markings might help setting everything up Thanks to the excellent Das_Schlemm!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... g_Spot.png

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

figure of Speech, something you apparently don't understand!

The engine's of Arleigh Burks class aren't directly under the funnel, the are aft to starboard and port side. The funnels from the turbine goes at an approx 10 to15 degree angel before it go direct to the funnel. The same for the air intake, it's only the forward turbine that are directly under the air-intake.


The air-intake on this one is more than double the size of FNAN, but less then Arleigh Burk. Remember the Burks have 4 turbines, FNAN have 1 turbine, I have 2.


Size comparison of FNAN air intake for LM2500, note it's on both side of the funnel!

What I have drawn there on on side of the funnel, is the size of the totall air-intake of FNAN for turbines, with diesel it's a little more, and still even with the intake for the diesel, I still have 20% more intake then FNAN, on one side alone. and it is the same on the other side, I have more than enough air intake than you think. It's almost like you are after me, don't compare to what US do, lett them do there own things, it's not guarantee that what they do is the correct thing!

Red is for the forward turbine.
Green is for the aft turbine.

You know, you can drainage it out somewhere else, I could made into an open exposed structure, instead of an enclosed.

And they will not suck in hot air from the exhaust, that is basic physic, and if they suck some in, it is still colder then the funnels it'self and can still add cooling.

Limitation, limitation! You get what you can on the hull, I can either throw away the hangar, torpedo battery, galley, etc. to live in a dream world where everything is perfect.

show me a perfect ship.

The ship is of same length as the original ship that donate it's line. The turbines is in somewhat similar location as the FNAN, just a bit more forward, but as said. electric drive do give some advantage an can solve some problems.


This is an Norwegian ship, not a US ship. What US practice is, is to no concern for the Norwegian Navy, they have there own regulation to follow,
If I was to copy US practice, then yes. But this is not a US ship, this is an Norwegian ship we are a bit simpler (for better or worse!)

How it looks like on HNoMS Fridtjof Nansen F310:



How it's been repainted, due to it is at the moment, in the Mediterranean for a long periode escorting a US carrier, and instead taking with them own helicopter, they are letting US Navy us there helicopter deck and hangar, thus the US Navy repainted the deck to fit them (will be repainted when it come back to Norway) (don't worry about the rust, it have been out together with US Navy for several months):


HNoMS Maud, the lines are a little different, due to it is capable to land large helicopter:


HNoMS Barentshav (Coast Guard), they do the marking a little different, they are now marking for the rear wheel, but it is also due to it is expected to be able to receive many variant of helicopters, specially police or ambulance helicopters, that tend to be on the small side, so they mark for the rear landing wheel instead:



Sometimes I wonder how we manage to live in this world, when we have people that look at one ship and think: "since they are doing it like that, then it must be the only way to do it, lets force everyone to copy what they do, instead of trying to come with something new"

You recently asked for more comments on the forum. Apparently my comments are not appreciated so I will refrain from giving feedback on your designs from now on. Sorry to use my experience on how ships work on Norwegian science fiction designs.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

well is how you comment, think and pretend you know everything. The world is bigger then just look at a ship and say it's how thing is supposed to be. I have done my study and math and I know it works.

I try to give factual, relatively short comments. However, you apparently do not know how it works.
- The Nansen hasn't got it's air intakes for the turbines on the funnel, but it has an air intake structure directly in front of the funnel with an turbine removal hatch on top.
- The USN markings for helicopter decks you say "do not work for Norway" match exactly what you show on your images. Of course, not everything, but the markings that are actually used by the helicopter and the VERTREP lines match exactly.

You say I talk as if I know everything. But when you are still working on your ships helicopter deck arrangement and markings and I link you to an excellent ref that might help you (with those exact words accompanying it) and you reply with something that sounds like 'I can't use that, Norway does things differently so that is useless, why would you even send me this' then I might not be the person who should be worried about how I say things. I try to help make your ship more realistic, so if everything I comment is countered by 'this Norwegian ship does things differently' while it actually doesn't, I'm out.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

It's those I used, I never used those on the funnel! I know the structure in front of the funnel is the air intake for the turbine and those two vents you see on both side, is all there is on Nansen for air to the LM2500.

Nansen dosn't have a removable hatch on the funnel or the turbin-intake structure for the turbines, There are not enough space for an engine removal trough that way at all, the only thing they have there is the service hatch, for delivering larger parts fro engine room and turbine, if they going to have to remove the turbine, they just cut out the hull side. Like they did last time.
My marking is an exact copy of how Norway do it on Nansen, I never said it do not work for Norway, (where do you get that from?), I said we have our own regulation just like US have there own regulation and we are a bit simpler, the only ship that is following US markings at the moment is the HNoMS Fridtjof Nansen that is escorting an US carrier in the Meds. and it only have that marking setup, due to they are operating US-Navy helicopter from her, instead of Norwegian, because we prefer to have them home for the other frigates, due to the massive exercise that are around the corner with more than 35.000 personnel + ships.

Just like helicopter markings, you showed me the Americans marking, this isn't an American ship, its and Norwegian ship, Norway have there own regulation on how the markings should be, just like any other country have. You sound more like a person driving on the right side of the road in England, because the Americans do so, so everyone have to follow that regulation.

As I have said earlier, there was still some minor details I had to get done before I was totally happy with it.

I have decided this frigate "concept" (weird word to use for just bashing some lines... but okay), it's going to be 3 variant on the hull.

1. Standard, with extended helicopter deck version. for large drone/UAV/etc. operation, one hangar for medium helicopter and one hangar for multiple UAV's/etc.
2. Extended hangar version. smaller helicopter deck, reposition of some of the armament. Hangar in this version will go as far forward as on the standard version. but is now a combined hangar and flex deck.
3. Similar version as extended hanger version, but with the hangar size of the standard version. radar and funnel structure is repositioned more aft, with a semi split funnel for a different powerplant.

Standard powerplant will be either a combination of LM2500+G4 or LM6000 and 4 large diesel, in a hybrid system, and all electric propulsion. for the split funnel version only, twin standard LM2500 and somewhat more separated engine room for diesel engines


This is the extended Hangar/flex deck version (major change is the choice of either single LM2500+G4 or LM6000) (Note this is an 4 faced version, are coming with a 3 faced version soon):

I like that one, I would prefer 76mm on bow but if you don't have what you like, you like what you have.

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Nobody expects the Imperial Inquisition!

The extended main structure variant, with a LM6000 solution (54,610hp + 4 Diesel; electric powerplant), alternatively can use a LM2500+G4 (47,370hp + 4 diesel; electric powerplant, possible the diesel need to be bigger then normal)

What I have done:

- due to stretched structure and a single LM6000, a different air-intake.
- added "some" shadows
- replaced 57 mm with a 76mm (requested)
- added the smile, as seen on one of the Norwegian Coast Guard vessel. (for fun)
- Changed the main structure, I can't guaranty that it's 120 degree... did it on eye.




What's impress me about the design is mainly how much cover all guns have, the 30mm's have close to 315 degree firing angle, both of them! the 76mm have also close to 315 degree firing angle.
one worry I have is how much armament is placed forward, alternatively for having a simple construction, sort off. can move NSM-launcher to the top of the hangar, or in the front end of helicopter deck (under deck), with exhaust out the sides.

Quite Qool!