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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 21st, 2011, 2:33 am
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hmmm.... not intentionally, I think the draught is more important than length and beam for the baltic. The sailing depth of flintrännan is just 8m and I want my ships to be able to use it.

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Rodondo
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2011, 7:05 am
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Very nice, I presume a larger class will follow the Sverige class?

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2011, 11:50 am
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Yes, there will be 3 divisions in the 'kustflottan' main flottila.
3 Sveriges
3 Nordstjernan battlecruisers (8x 12in, 20kton, 27kts)
3 Fädernäslandet superdreadnoughts (8x14in, 35kton, 25 kts)

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dc1
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2011, 3:46 pm
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Psilander wrote:
hmmm.... not intentionally, I think the draught is more important than length and beam for the baltic. The sailing depth of flintrännan is just 8m and I want my ships to be able to use it.
Yes draugt sets the limit in the Baltic, but beeing too long can be a problem sometimes.. The main problem is if you are limit to say 7.5 metre draught normal load, the ship has to gain volume/ buoyancy by beeing longer and broader.... I think it will be hard to get a 35 000 tonner within 7,5-8 metre draught... You have to do some Springsharp black magic....


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2011, 7:36 pm
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Here she is, the old version though 30000tons, in her ww2 apperence
Quote:
Fädernäslandet, Sweden Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1932)

Displacement:
28 462 t light; 30 088 t standard; 31 997 t normal; 33 524 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
656,05 ft / 639,76 ft x 98,43 ft (Bulges 104,99 ft) x 22,97 ft (normal load)
199,96 m / 195,00 m x 30,00 m (Bulges 32,00 m) x 7,00 m

Armament:
8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (3 mounts), 1 372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
16 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
20 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 11 641 lbs / 5 280 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 321,52 ft / 98,00 m 11,91 ft / 3,63 m
Ends: 5,98" / 152 mm 311,68 ft / 95,00 m 11,91 ft / 3,63 m
6,56 ft / 2,00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 5,98" / 152 mm 415,85 ft / 126,75 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
0,98" / 25 mm 415,85 ft / 126,75 m 22,44 ft / 6,84 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14,0" / 356 mm 10,0" / 254 mm 12,0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1,97" / 50 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 4,00" / 102 mm
3rd: 0,33" / 8 mm - -
4th: 0,33" / 8 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 75 475 shp / 56 304 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 8 000nm at 14,00 kts (Bunkerage = 3 436 tons)

Complement:
1 196 - 1 555

Cost:
£4,601 million / $18,403 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1 455 tons, 4,5 %
Armour: 12 439 tons, 38,9 %
- Belts: 4 027 tons, 12,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 340 tons, 1,1 %
- Armament: 3 035 tons, 9,5 %
- Armour Deck: 4 777 tons, 14,9 %
- Conning Tower: 261 tons, 0,8 %
Machinery: 2 228 tons, 7,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 240 tons, 38,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 535 tons, 11,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44 893 lbs / 20 363 Kg = 32,7 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
Roll period: 17,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,97

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,726
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,09 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17,26 ft / 5,26 m
- Stern: 17,26 ft / 5,26 m
- Average freeboard: 20,44 ft / 6,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162,8 %
Waterplane Area: 51 646 Square feet or 4 798 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 883 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,12
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

3 in Class: Fädernäslandet, Konungen, Drottningen

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dc1
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: May 23rd, 2011, 10:58 am
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What´s the draught at full load? Have you tried to sim some real ship the same size?

I get the feeling that SS underestimates the draught.. IRL I´ve seen no dreadnought that has
a draught less than 8 metre except Orion-class. Offcourse you could travel the tight spots in light condition and then fuel up and load on other stores.

It´s always a tradeoff, sadly one can´t get everything in the same unit. Still a 3 division battlefleet i the Baltic backed by predreads/ later Coastal defense ships and lots of light units would crush the russisn>soviet navy and make the germans think twice before doing stupid things.


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: June 2nd, 2011, 10:15 pm
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[ img ]
Quote:
Nordstjernan
Svärdet
Wasen

Sweden
Battlecruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
18 164 t light; 19 262 t standard; 19 998 t normal; 20 587 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(577,43 ft / 574,15 ft) x 78,74 ft x (25,59 / 26,21 ft)
(176,00 m / 175,00 m) x 24,00 m x (7,80 / 7,99 m)

Armament:
8 - 12,01" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 873,07lbs / 396,02kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1912 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 12,99lbs / 5,89kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8 385 lbs / 3 804 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,638 t each, 3,276 t total
submerged bow tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10,8" / 275 mm 318,24 ft / 97,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: 4,72" / 120 mm 252,62 ft / 77,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 4,72" / 120 mm 331,36 ft / 101,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10,8" / 275 mm 5,98" / 152 mm 10,8" / 275 mm
2nd: 4,72" / 120 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 2,95" / 75 mm
3rd: 0,20" / 5 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2,95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 1,18" / 30 mm Quarter deck: 1,18" / 30 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 10,83" / 275 mm, Aft 6,89" / 175 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 70 219 shp / 52 383 Kw = 26,80 kts
Range 4 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 324 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
840 - 1 093

Cost:
£1,847 million / $7,387 million

Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: June 2nd, 2011, 10:17 pm
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Quote:
Dalarö
Utö, Trossö, Koster, Vinga, Ven, Arholma, Landsort
Sweden
Coast defence ship laid down 1896

Displacement:
4 424 t light; 4 518 t standard; 4 700 t normal; 4 845 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
311,68 ft / 311,68 ft x 61,68 ft x 13,12 ft (normal load)
95,00 m / 95,00 m x 18,80 m x 4,00 m

Armament:
2 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns in single mounts, 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1896 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1896 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
10 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm guns in single mounts, 5,65lbs / 2,56kg shells, 1896 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1896 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1 975 lbs / 896 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 0
2 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7,28" / 185 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 9,42 ft / 2,87 m
Ends: 1,38" / 35 mm 109,06 ft / 33,24 m 9,42 ft / 2,87 m
Upper: 1,38" / 35 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,28" / 185 mm 4,92" / 125 mm 7,28" / 185 mm
2nd: 4,92" / 125 mm 1,97" / 50 mm -
3rd: 1,38" / 35 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 7,28" / 185 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 5 136 ihp / 3 832 Kw = 16,00 kts
Range 2 800nm at 8,00 kts (Bunkerage = 328 tons)

Complement:
283 - 368

Cost:
£0,481 million / $1,925 million

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dc1
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: June 12th, 2011, 4:02 pm
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Really like the BC. Will her class survive through the 30´s? The brown line on parts of her deck would be teak right.


I´ve just found the solution to move the navy from coast to coast fast and safe. It involves all steamexcavators and barges you can find, all uneployed ( best done in the great depression of the 30,s) a whole lot of explosives and a lot of shovels. The make slight ;) adjustments to Göta kanal.... With enough effort this could be done in say 20 years starting before ww1. With all other traffic on the channel stopped, a battleship could make the trip in three days. Without danger of enemy attack or mines, this being true until after ww2 started....


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: June 14th, 2011, 10:40 am
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Two of the BCs survive in to the Swedish "La Jenune Ecole" fleet in 1930s, forming a second squadron next to the Karl XIV Johan BCs.

Conserning Gota Kanal.... I think it is an interesting suggestion but way too expensive and unpractical....

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