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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 1:38 pm
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Yeah, Ensign is a rather common rank, atleast for what ive learned to get custom. (US and UK ranks makes no sense anyways :lol: ) The equalent Finnish rank would be Vänrikki, coming from German equalent, Fränrich, also meaning as some sort of ensign AFAIK. In Finnish army, ensigns are always reserve officers (conscripts) and they would be platoon leaders in army field units. The lowest regular personels officer rank would be lieutenant

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WhyMe
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 4:29 pm
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According to Wiki Ensign is equivalent to NCO, yet the last two drawings say "3 Ensigns, 12 NCOs". It just seems wrong.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 4:56 pm
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Glorfindel
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 6:28 pm
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In the armies of the former warsaw pact, the ensign are an own rank group like officers, nco's and enlisted men and in some countries warrant officers. Like in my army (the swiss one), we have also warrant officers, which are an own rank group between NCO's and officers.

Maybe I will add an explanation of the ensign rank to the drawing. I must say, that for me it would be easier, if ensign are NCO's, because then the drawing is easier to understand. Would it be right, to change it to WO or would this be not correct?


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WhyMe
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 6:53 pm
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I would stick to the NATO ranking system and list them as Warrant Officers.
Another option would be to use the original Soviet rank, i.e. Praporshchik.

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Glorfindel
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 17th, 2011, 7:53 pm
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I did change it to WO.

@Gollevainen: I don't think that the british rank system makes no sense. If I have time, I will maybe create a rank system for an AU army.


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 18th, 2011, 1:45 pm
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Quote:
would stick to the NATO ranking system and list them as Warrant Officers.
That would just increase the missunderstanding that many westeners (our viewers and members) still have about the omni-inclusive nature of NATOs and other western designation systems, when trying to apply them to mean something that are not intended to be comparable.... Its allready enough work for me to keep our shipdrawers not to call soviet large antisubmarine ships as frigates for example, lets not make it any more delusional in FD scale either ;)

Its partially our arm-chair generals responsibility to forge the terms and descriptions out of many russian and similary foreing terms when discussing about them in the internet.
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Another option would be to use the original Soviet rank, i.e. Praporshchik.
That would be the far best solution. Then again like allready mentioned, Praporschcik translates as ensign :roll: ... and as the rank is not that alien to our Non-US/UK members, calling it simply Ensign would be the best solution. Glorfindel mentioned making the drawing easier to understand, but would it make it anymore easier to understand if the designations would be made deliberatly missleading?

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WhyMe
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 18th, 2011, 2:06 pm
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Gollevainen wrote:
Then again like allready mentioned, Praporschcik translates as ensign :roll:
Yes, indeed, but this is true only for a historical rank that was abandoned in 1917. The Soviet rank Praporshchik was introduced in 1970 and it was equivalent to Western Warrant Officer rank.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 18th, 2011, 2:12 pm
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Gollevainen wrote:
Quote:
would stick to the NATO ranking system and list them as Warrant Officers.
That would just increase the missunderstanding that many westeners (our viewers and members) still have about the omni-inclusive nature of NATOs and other western designation systems, when trying to apply them to mean something that are not intended to be comparable.... Its allready enough work for me to keep our shipdrawers not to call soviet large antisubmarine ships as frigates for example, lets not make it any more delusional in FD scale either ;)
It gets even worse when you realize the NATO system isn't applied consistently across NATO forces.
For instance, in the RDN a Fændrik (Danish for Ensign) was above an OR-9, but below an OF-1, but they weren't OF(D)s.
On the other hand in Germany and Iceland they are OF(D)s, but in Norway and Poland they are OF-1s.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Organization & Equipment of a Soviet Motor Rifle CompanyPosted: October 18th, 2011, 3:35 pm
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yeah, best avoid anything "standardised" with a mile distance ;) Even simple things like warship designations always leads us into dead-ends.
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The Soviet rank Praporshchik was introduced in 1970 and it was equivalent to Western Warrant Officer rank
For finnish army sense atleast, the modern Soviet Praporshchik equalents more of our ensigns (or junior lieutannents) than warrant officers where as the idea in soviet army was of conscription army, where the actuall NCO ranks were held by the conscripts, and Praporshciks were career soldiers, similar to western professional armies NCO's, but their status was above that of NCO's in the soviet army. Ensigns are traditionally been the "almost" officers, not just high ranking NCOs that warrant officer would fall into (atleast If I had understood it correctly by modeling it against our own warrant officer rank: vääpeli, which is NCO rank)

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