Shipbucket

Well, on and off for a few months, I've been working with the possibilities of an AA conversion of the Clemson class destroyer. After seeing Ashley trying one out, I decided to finish mine up and try and see if it works. Different designs, from two 5"/38s to three twin 4"/45s have been worked through (sadly without the help of Springsharp), and this is the best I can do. This is assuming that the destroyer was kept in good shape, so I would say that this was one of the USN ships that was going to go through a conversion anyway.

Its still a WIP, so advice on the twin and single 40mm guns would be helpful. Or if I should just switch out one of the main guns for a 40mm mount and switch 40mm guns for 20mm. I'm also considering switching the 4"/45s out for another weapon, although I'm not sure as to which weapon would be large enough a caliber, yet be able to mount more than just a few of on the ship.



Anything helps with this one!

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Worklist:
Puerto Oeste - AU - WWI-WWII

SrGopher- after I get the basic Clemson class Springsharped, I'd be happy to plug in any numbers that you might want run, if you needed it.

IF I was going to mod the (by then rather ancient) Clemson class for a pure 'flack barge' role:

The original 4"/L50 cal guns weighed on average 5 tons (individual marks ranged from 4.5t - 5.6t); a twin Bofors 40mm/L56 mount weighed 4.9t without a shield- this will allow us to swap the weapons out on a 2:1 basis. Placing a pair in the elevated aft 4" gun position will produce a good arc of fire while not interfering with the depth charge racks.

The midships 4" guns would probably require a single 40mm mount relating to space restrictions- if the space is sufficient at all. If so, the a single 40mm replacing that mount in the same elevated position would be my pick. If a pair of the torpedo tubes were removed and another pair of elevated firing positions constructed, then at least one more single 40mm mount could be placed aft of the boats with a relatively small increase in topweight.

I would leave the fore 4"/L50 gun to deal with surfaced submarines, or for any kind of 'heavy work' that might be envisioned... perhaps even using the twin Mk 14 mount that was used on the Stockton. Alternatively, the twin Mk 14 mount weighed about 9.4t, and the submarine 'wet mount' for the 5"/L25 weighed in at <7t. This means that it would be possible to replace the fore 4" mount with a 5"/L25 submarine mount- though I'm not sure what extra topweight that directors might add to this total, if it might run the project too far overbudget on weight, or if it would be advisable to do so even if the weights worked out. Anyone who knows more about the weights involved think it might be feasible?


I think I might try to kitbash this out tomorrow or the next day, actually.

Thanks for the Springsharp offer! I'll PM you if I end up needing any numbers checked.

I'm also thinking about trying out conversions for other navies too. A German, French, Italian and maybe a a Japanese version, and of course my Centennial AU nation. All in all, I just want to see the best possible refit to give these old things any more potential than just the ASW ships that were armed with a gun or two and a few light cannons.

And I can't wait to see your version, Carthaginian.

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Worklist:
Puerto Oeste - AU - WWI-WWII

No offence, but an AA role for the 'Clemson' class begs the question why? Surely, there were more suitable hulls, and first you'll need to define the actual role; at the time: early WWII, there was no role for any dedicated AA on such a small hull, when the dire need was for asw; and these were already old hull, very limited in any role outside asw, in RN service.

I was planning a purely 'academic' conversion- just a study in 'what could be done if it had been done' kind of thing to make the Clemson into an anti-aircraft escort. It could also be looked at as a 'barge-buster' for patrolling the Pacific islands or English Channel or even the Italian coast- the 40mm would make a good rapid-fire gun for dealing with MTB's and light surface craft.

Removing either the proposed centerline 40mm or the remaining two torpedo tubes from my design would leave room for a pair of DC throwers and ready racks, giving some additional ASW capability to the design. This would make it an effective (though probably less than ideal) escort for a CVE group. They could even be viewed as vessels sold to bolster the navies of nations fighting the Japanese, such as China.

It started off as a way to explore the ships' potential as a frontline vessel for battle groups. Now, the idea was for a relatively cheap export ship to say, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil or the Free French.

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Worklist:
Puerto Oeste - AU - WWI-WWII

Here's the basic idea behind what I had planned. Everything looks like it'll fit.
I'm about out of time for tonight- will Springsharp to give the weights a rough test tomorrow or the next day. There are 5 directors, two on either beam and one on the scaffold aft the 4th pipe.

Fair enough chaps, re it being a purely academic exercise. Re the potential to get these old ships into other navies (other than the ones sold to the RN), that would be zero, as the cost in integrating them wouldn't justify. In fact the ship you are looking for already exists: The Hunt class (in its later version)

Would it be possible for small navies to get any of these? Like Australia, its largest ship was a light cruiser at best and it had mostly surface warfare-geared destroyers. A few AA-geared ones would be more beneficial for operations along the European coast or in the Pacific than not having one.

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Worklist:
Puerto Oeste - AU - WWI-WWII

Are you aware that the RAN had (for the times) a considreable cruiser force, including two 8-in heavy crusiers? And why would the RAN want a dedicated aa destroyer? When none existed in any other navy? And even so, what would be the purpose of such a ship - what was it supposed to be defending? And even then, why would it want more old ships when it had enough of its own still serving?